tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post5891208884304115132..comments2024-01-16T08:40:53.682+00:00Comments on <a href="http://www.openeurope.org.uk">Open Europe</a>: Why not have a free vote on the EU Referendum?OEhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00556463374230498875noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-4142733663646963672011-10-24T13:46:03.505+01:002011-10-24T13:46:03.505+01:00The lengthy & chaotic nature of the euro-zone ...The lengthy & chaotic nature of the euro-zone leaders' deliberations over the rescue of their own currency, the euro, over the last 18 months since the Greek crisis erupted, shows how pointless it would be for Britain to vote for the 'stay-in while negotiating' option. If Britain uses that approach in its attempts to recover any of the powers it has previously & unwisely ceded to the EU, very little will be achieved, & the negotiations are likely to drag on fruitlessly for many pointless years. <br /><br />The only way for Britain to make real negotiating progress is: (i) to either actually withdraw, or (ii) to treat our membership as being in temporary obeyance. If this second option is not respected, & responded to at an adequate pace, then Britain would have the choice of withdrawing fully. This certainly would concentrate EU minds. <br /><br />But anything that indicated indecision, & patience with the EU's laborious timetable, would be used by the always slow-motion EU to its full advantage rather than Britain's. After all, Greenland was keen to leave, but it still took it 6 years of wrangling before it finally managed to achieved the level of freedom they wanted.Black Swannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-34706584510251579842011-10-24T13:44:59.860+01:002011-10-24T13:44:59.860+01:00The lengthy & chaotic nature of the euro-zone ...The lengthy & chaotic nature of the euro-zone leaders' deliberations over the rescue of their own currency, the euro, over the last 18 months since the Greek crisis erupted, shows how pointless it would be for Britain to vote for the 'stay-in while negotiating' option. If Britain uses that approach in its attempts to recover any of the powers it has previously & unwisely ceded to the EU, very little will be achieved, & the negotiations are likely to drag on fruitlessly for many pointless years. <br /><br />The only way for Britain to make real negotiating progress is: (i) to either actually withdraw, or (ii) to treat our membership as being in temporary obeyance. If this second option is not respected, & responded to at an adequate pace, then Britain would have the choice of withdrawing fully. This certainly would concentrate EU minds. <br /><br />But anything that indicated indecision, & patience with the EU's laborious timetable, would be used by the always slow-motion EU to its full advantage rather than Britain's. After all, Greenland was keen to leave, but it still took it 6 years of wrangling before it finally managed to achieved the level of freedom they wanted.Black Swannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-19804584456581282242011-10-22T17:11:29.076+01:002011-10-22T17:11:29.076+01:00Thanks for the reply.
Any free-trade deal would d...Thanks for the reply.<br /><br />Any free-trade deal would do. Korea's, Mexico's, India's etc. There was UK-EEC trade before 1973. As you say, it's one for the WTO if no one has any imagination. Besides, I for one am desperate to lower our tariffs against the developing world's exports.<br /><br />"The risk is that a Yes vote also would kill the question of EU reform"<br /><br />You know and I know and so does the whole world that the EU does not do reform. Let's draw a veil over this point.<br /><br />Back to the original post and a point that needs scrutiny:<br /><br />"an 'out' vote would not settle the question of the UK's future in Europe [you mean the "EU", right?] as it would trigger a hugely complex round of negotiations with other EU countries in order to establish a new relationship"<br /><br />The whole point of the EU is that there are no bilateral deals; you deal with the bloc as one. It's a customs union. Mexico has a free-trade deal with the EU; it didn't make 27 separate deals with 27 countries.<br /><br />I repeat: you are the think tank. If you wish to pursue the chimera of staying in the EU and reforming it, go ahead. If you wish to formulate a "credible plan" for exit and how it can be implemented, what's stopping you? <br /><br />Or do you wish to stay in, come what may? Thought so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-88012182571848123682011-10-21T23:24:54.190+01:002011-10-21T23:24:54.190+01:00Thanks anonymous, but did you actually read the bl...Thanks anonymous, but did you actually read the blog post? As we allude to in the blog post, we can envision many ways in which the UK can survive outside the EU, but as we also argue, no one has set out a credible plan for what this should look like, or how it can be achieved, meaning a huge degree of uncertainty come that vote. Sloppy proposals are usually called out in a referendum campaign.<br /><br />What "free-trade" deals are you referring to? We touch on EEA (which has overtaken EFTA for most practical purposes) and the Swiss-EU arrangement (completely different in nature). Are you saying that the UK should rely on the WTO structure in case of withdrawal? If so, how? Or a customs-style union a la Turkey? All these options are worth exploring but raise the same unanswered questions that we highlight in the blog post.Open Europe blog teamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13298566546867244328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-30595827593557180492011-10-21T22:17:16.901+01:002011-10-21T22:17:16.901+01:00"there are no credible alternatives to member..."there are no credible alternatives to membership"<br /><br />Are you absolutely sure? Really? How about the free-trade deal enjoyed by numerous countries with the sclerotic bloc? You're a think tank and you can't envision the UK surviving outside the EU. Amazing. I'll give you one thing: you've convinced a lot of people that you're "eurosceptic".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com