tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post8930240398116928629..comments2024-01-16T08:40:53.682+00:00Comments on <a href="http://www.openeurope.org.uk">Open Europe</a>: Gas talks stall as Russia pushes for EU guarantees on Ukrainian gas paymentsOEhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00556463374230498875noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-62748497542570939132014-11-03T16:27:21.951+00:002014-11-03T16:27:21.951+00:00Well, Senhor Barroso once said that the EU was an ...Well, Senhor Barroso once said that the EU was an empire and now it is becoming clear that its insane programme of perpetual expansion is costing very dear. Britain had to give up its empire because we couldn't afford it.<br /><br />Yet it seems they want to make us pay for this one.<br /><br />Ironically Mr Putin once made the Ukraine an offer which would have covered this and the EU would have had no need to put its sticky fingers in our pockets.Edward Spaltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04168350315689612490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-53150979160134364322014-10-31T10:52:08.490+00:002014-10-31T10:52:08.490+00:00This situation reflects typical EUSSR incompetence...This situation reflects typical EUSSR incompetence. "Whaaaaa! I poked the big bear in the eye mummy and it bit me!" - Duhhh.<br /><br />The EUSSR guarantees will no doubt be made to save face in Brussels and oil the wheels of the mandarins' empire building and after all, they can always send the UK another cooked up bill to pay for it all if necessary can't they?<br /><br />Average Englishmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-64042918441376032592014-10-30T20:20:55.019+00:002014-10-30T20:20:55.019+00:00It has not gone quite right for them
has it, hopin...It has not gone quite right for them<br />has it, hoping the Brits will cough<br />up 2billion euros by the end of the month, that really was arragance, why not ask Elmar Brok to hand over <br />some cash, after all he seem to be very prominent when it all kicked off in the Ukraine, along with other<br />German politicians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-45015444056182718472014-10-30T19:41:34.637+00:002014-10-30T19:41:34.637+00:00"Ukraine is now totally reliant on external f..."Ukraine is now totally reliant on external funding from the EU and IMF."<br /><br />This comment set me thinking. Since the Soviet bloc broke up, Poland's economy has advanced strongly, while that of Ukraine mostly stagnated.<br /><br />So, while we notice Ukraine's downward spiral today, maybe we should also be asking if an independent Ukraine was *ever* on a sustainable trajectory of growth. Could Ukraine ever have generated growth, crisis or no crisis?<br /><br />If the answer is no, then the best thing Ukraine could do is await or even provoke a political crisis, in the hope of being taken over as an EU protectorate, and then gradually integrated into the EU economy.<br /><br />I don't suppose we will ever really know the answer, but I am pretty sure that oligarchs who survived the Soviet system and made themselves rich would be smart enough to figure out how to pull this strategy off. jon liveseynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-46074262659548526652014-10-30T15:34:46.804+00:002014-10-30T15:34:46.804+00:00@Jesper
Excellent comment.
Ukraine was basically ...@Jesper<br />Excellent comment.<br /><br />Ukraine was basically bust before the troubles started.<br />Add: incompetent government; loss of big parts of tax (The now Novorussia areas probably accounted for 20% of the taxrevenue);nobody investing; companies moving to their main market (Russia), lots of money spend on waepons.<br />Most of it easily to be foreseen.<br />Country simply cannot pay for its gas. Easily to be foreseen.<br /><br />Getting involved in these negotiations. Basically not as an independent party, but seen as a backer of one of them.<br /><br />While this gascard had already been played before.<br /><br />Utter moronic.<br /><br />What is more important is the fact that the Ukraine's economy isnot 'saved' by 20 Bn or something loans. Probably more like 10-20Bn annually to get things running again.<br /><br />Issue is if you pay for this one (which you probably have to especially at this stage (early winterperiod)). You are close to having bought you a new Greece.<br /><br />Would have been much better to do something similar as with ISIS. Except for the bombing, very expensive and highly inefficient. Let 2 dodgy parties fight each other and support (but not openly) the least dodgy one if it looks it is going to lose. A lot of people will be killed but it are not yours and they are troublemakers anyway. Riknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36227136.post-81090225945950552142014-10-30T12:23:45.593+00:002014-10-30T12:23:45.593+00:00Doubtful if any lessons will be learned, the arrog...Doubtful if any lessons will be learned, the arrogance has been striking and the mistakes many. Arrogance and learning rarely come together....<br /><br />One lesson that could be learned is that by taking sides in an internal dispute the tensions are increased. Police know that, but arrogant knowitalls will try to resolve the crisis while tempers are running hot and the resulting consequences are often disastrous.<br /><br />Another lesson that could be learned is that if you're responsible for increasing tensions then you're also expected to accept responsiblity for resolving the resulting problems - like now, pay up or forever be seen as an irresponsible unaccountable troublemaker.<br /><br />Failure to pay and guarantee (will result in paying, drop the pretense) the future debts will push the so called EU-friendly away.<br /><br />The EU went all in. The resulting choice now is: Pay up or lose face.<br /><br />Or maybe this lesson is more relevant:<br />When you create an external enenmy to get domestic support then you need to show competence in the crisis or you'll make the case for less power, not more (like now).Jespernoreply@blogger.com