Almost entirely unnoticed by the UK media (with the exception of the Guardian), the House of Lords is doing its best to rip the heart out of the Government's EU Bill and accompanying "referendum lock". The Government last night suffered its third and fourth defeats on the Bill in a week, with peers voting by 242 to 209, to modify the Bill's "sovereignty clause" and by 209 to 203 to introduce a "sunset clause", which would see the entire Bill lapse at the end of this Parliament.
We have always felt the sovereignty clause the less important aspect of the Bill compared with the referendum lock but the latter, designed to give Parliament and voters a say over any significant future transfers of power to Brussels, has now been attacked and severely mauled by peers.
On Monday, peers voted to restrict the issues on which referendums should be held to only three: joining the euro, the creation of a "single, integrated military force", and changes to border control. This would leave the public without a say over several important issues such as whether a future UK Government could sign up to the creation of a new European Public Prosecutor or give up arguably the UK's most important veto of all: it's right to veto the multi-annual EU budget.
And, in the words of Foreign Office Minister Lord Howell, these amendments completely "undermine the direct and frank and honest commitment that we wish to make to the British people...I really would suggest that the public can be trusted to determine what is in their own interest."
As we've noted before, there is a certain irony in the fact that it is an unelected body, the House of Lords, which is displaying such great suspicion and hostility to giving people a greater say over their country’s relationship with the EU - and peers have given us some unintentionally hilarious quotes during the often bizarre debates on the Bill (we'll give you a few samples shortly). But the fact that it is being allowed to do so completely under the political radar is probably even more worrying.
45 comments:
This just demonstrates that those composing the "transformed" and allegedly more "democratic" version of the House of Lords do not have the interests of the British people at heart.
The new "place men" appointed in the last 14 years have obviously been selected to promote the interests of the EU first.
Dirty lying tax avoiding fraudulent bastards willing to sell their souls for foot under the trough in Brussels
The matter is being made very complicated by our supposedly intelligent politicians. The matter is really quite simple. Put the whole question of a referendum NOW to the British people.
What on earth are they playing at, and do they really think that we are that stupid to see their real motives?
The truth is that we have a large Fifth Column in both Houses at Westminster of ex MEPs and commissioners who have to look after EU interests or lose their pensions.
In business people have to declare an interest before they can discuss matters and would probably not be able to vote because of this.surqnll
Simply put, THEY HAVE BEEN BOUGHT.
I agree with all these comments but one must not forget that it was the Commons who created this Frankenstein. With Cameron in charge and Vague Hague on the wing the UK will soon join as a totally French underdog.
Their Lordships must either be very stupid; or have committed themselves to interests contrary to those of the people of this country just as totally as people such as Philby, Burgess, Maclean did to the USSR a couple of generations ago. It is surely relevant that Lord Hannay was a senior Brussels bureaucrat before he went into the House of Lords.
High time to close the House of Lords. This is the 21st century and I am at a loss as to the meaning of "Lord" in a modern world.
Surely, the purpose of government is to Administer the affairs of the people, in the best interests of the people.
Replace this house with Ombudsmen and women who can truly oversee the conduct of the House of Commons. Perhaps three from each county?
And now it`s in the open, what we already suspected. They all want the trough to get bigger and wallow in it. Looking after the voters of this country. You must be joking. Get us out of this mess and quickly.
What a bunch of pompous sods those so called "Lordships" are. They have no interest whatsoever in representing the views of the overwhelming majority of our citizens. They are more interested in preserving their snouts in the troughs of the profligate EU Gravy Train.
There will end up being a revolution in this country the way our views persistently get completely ignored.
So what's new, anything to do with the EU has always been surrounded by lies deciet & corruption.
This bill was never worth the paper it was written on as it relied on Parliment to define if soveignty was being surrendered,need, I say more !!!!
This is shocking. It is bad enough that the government do not give the people a say on the EU- a referendum will never happen as all three parties want us to stay in - without an unelected bunch of hasbeens watering down the little good that the government has done.
The Lords happen to be one third of The Crown according to our constitution. There are hereditary Peers waiting a return to their 'seats' in the Upper House, by right! They are the Peers who would act in accordance with their duty to the Crown and work to prevent further erosion and subversion of the British Constutution. The 'placed/selected Peers' are there purely to destroy our ancient but strong Constitution. Don't fall into the trap of'closing down' the Upper House. Furthermore,it is HMQ who should act in accordance with her Coronation Oath and prorogue Parliament because it has become an Unlawful Assembly ever since the traitor Edward Heath signed the 1972 ECA. We should 'rise up' against this Parliament, as is our duty and remove them all from Office! We must ptotest! To sit dumbfounded and silent, gives them tacit consent to whatever they may plan to do. Stand up and cry-out, "I DO NOT CONSENT"
Why does an unelected House of Lords think itself able to deny people the right to vote on matters of great importance?
They must think that they are as important as unelected European bureaucrats.
Will the Government be brave enough to insist on the original bill?
By what right does the House of Lords presume to deny the British People a vote, by way of referndum on the EC? I cannot imagine that any expert on our unwriten constitution could justify what they are apparently seeking to do. Do you have the names of the Lords who so sought to emasculate this bill? Can they be lobbied? Surely the governemnt can bring the bill bck to the commons and override these lords amendments?Perhaps they are afrid to do this because of the liberals' enthusiasm for the EC.
I've tried lobbying Lords, who have titles in my constituency, including Lord Chiswick. He no more represents W 4 than the man in the moon. get rid of the lot of them!
The EU survives purely to benefit all the SNOUTS IN THE TROUGH, hence this undemocratic monster continues to buy political favour from almost most of the MEPs, MPs and the Lords.
I DEMAND MY DEMOCRATIC VOTE ON THIS EU MONSTER Mr.Cameron and Mr. Vague Hague, as you'd promised the electorate, NOW; scrap the EU trough.
[Switzerland trades perfectly well outside the EU and Britain will continue to trade with Europe].
These peers are all traitors to the British people. We should have the promised referendum, but it won't happen because the politicians all know there would be a huge vote in favour of leaving the EEC. This country really went down hill from the time we joined the 'Common Market'.
I despair for the future of my grandchildren. Deceitful politicians, they're all the same. Can't the Queen do anything for the country now.
I consider myself a somewhat right of centre Conservative . I have been horrified by the changes to the house of Lords under Blair .
I have always thought of the Lords as being impartial , having better judgement , more representative of the people . I have thought that an elected Lords could return more to how it was before . If this is what the Lords has become abolish it completely .
However there is nothing to stop the government holding a referendum . We could start with a referendum on whether Britain remains in or leaves the EU .
Is it too much to hope that the EU will collapse , if the ECB is bankrupted by Greece defaulting and the Euro collapsing .
It would seem that the Lords are completely out of touch with feelings in the ordinary world. We need many more controls over the E C and referendums on any further change to our subservience to that wasteful and overpowering body.
It seems that we should never have changed the constituon of the Lords and should have kept all the hereditary peers who were more indeopendentl;y minded
I have been against any changes to the House of Lords, but this vote by them has changed my mind. Get rid of the lot!
I think its time we had a published list of all those in the Lords and Commons who draw an EU Pension or have EU Interest. Even the BBCs head Lord Patton (who was given the shove as Tory MP candidate by his voters) Has a conflict of interest as he also draws an EU pension so we can guarantee that we will not get an unbiased news regarding the EU.We need a true Democracy not this cancer in our Government. As all 3 main parties are all but one, except in name lets boot them out and vote for real people who have proper jobs VOTE UKIP and get a real change.
Why would we expect anything less? We pretend to be a democracy but that was taken away from us 15 or more years ago. We, the voters must take some of the blame for this for letting it happen.
It is ironic that we send our young men to their deaths in far off deserts on the pretense that we are "spreading democracy".
They are all out of touch, democracy has to be fought for and won by the people who want it.
This outrageous vote has changed my mind about retaining an unelected House of Lords. Abolish these grasping and unelected Lords who treat the people and democracy with contempt and and make them submit themselves to election. How could they place their own interests above democracy? How dare they ignore the will of the people!
Appalling, who do those anti-democratic swine think they are? Major change clearly isn't going to happen unless the people of Britain assert themselves very strongly and demand that the politicians submit to our will! Or else!
John Tarby
Noble Lords? I, like many other voters, HAVE thought long and hard about withdrawal from the EU. Why does Lord Hannay of Chiswick think that we are not entitled to a referendum on this matter, which is absolutely vital to the future of this county? His views demonstrate the need for reform of the House of Lords. The message is clear - the majority of the populace want the sovereignity of this country to be returned - let us have our referendum!
Where is the new GUY FAWKES
Now is the time for all of to sign The People's Pledge. To make your voice heard to these moronic "lords" and gutless MPs, go to
http://www.peoplespledge.org/.
NOW !!!!
These dodering old bufoons still don't understand the people of Great Britain. What gives unelected lost souls the right to deny the right of the people to choose their destiny. If it means getting rid of the Lords first then so be it. Most of them have other agendas other than loyalty to tihs country, E.U. Drip by drip the powers of the people and country are sold away. My grandchildrens children will grow up in a non U.K.state why? SOLD to the lowest bidder!Any vote that changes the direction of this country should first go to the people, it is after all their "human right", as far as I am aware the Bill or Rights has not changed nor should it.
It's high time the British public rebelled against the fools who are running our country for their own gain. The house of lords should be abolished, where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?
The Government needs an influx of the common man, people who know what it's like to raise a family on a pittance, just about every aspect of our lives is taxed so Government can waste and give away our money without the blink of an eye. There seems to be no common sense whatsoever, What sort of fool allows our country to be dictated to by the EU monster, imposing ridiculous laws upon us, what sort of fool allows the EU court of human rights to trample all over our legal system and ensure criminals are treated better than their victims.
If government isn't stopped soon Britain will cease to exist as a country and we will be merged with perhaps France because it will be easier for the power crazed Europhiles to govern the people who used to be known as the British.
So here we see it...
“I think that noble Lords who say that the voice of the people must be heard should think a bit about this,” said Lord Hannay of Chiswick.
Who does this buffoon think he is?
These lords are mostly placemen who are only interested in lining their own pockets.We the people should have the right to have a referendum the lords are not elected by the people.
Cameron talks a lot but never does anything I dont think he's a tory he's a european still a pr man not living in the real world still in pr fantasy world
Many years ago, when I lived in London, I campaigned for the Referendum Party set up by Sir James Goldsmith, now deceased. As I went round and spoke to people on the doorstep, I was completely bewildered by the naivity of the people on the issue of the EU.
When I attended the Referendum conference at Brighton with 6,000 people in attendance, Sir James warned us "not to sleepwalk into Europe". There were many speakers from European countries saying the same thing.
The next day, having been one of those interviewed by the press, i bought every Sunday paper available to see the write up of the conference. NOTHING. I think there was half a page on Jemima's dress ( Sir James' daughter) by the Daily Mail.
Too late to negotiate. Our politicians are dumbed down or bought off. GIVE THE BRITISH PEOPLE A REFERENDUM - IN OR OUT?
Simples!
These lads and so called "lords" and old codgers are out of touch like the EU itself which is now falling apart and likely to bring us down with it too. Are they mad or what. Probably.
“I think that noble (haha)Lords who say that the voice of the people must be heard should think a bit about this,” said Lord Hannay of Chiswick. Better he think about how he got in his vaulted position first - TO SERVE THE PEOPLE. What a cheek. What a slur on magnificent Chiswick he is, not that he knows where it is ha.....
Recxent so called governments have been talking about changing the house of Lords, the best change they can make is to abolish it and get rid of all the hangerons.
it is time that the people had a say within our own government on europe. If that means that we have to get rid of the "has beens" then so be it. I thought I was voting for a STRONG government not one that listens to idiots and then rolls over.
Doing a Theron in the House of Lords. Serving two masters. They take a pension from Europe and do not reveal it in Members Interest Register and vote against any reforms in European issues. How transparent is that and how do they get away with not revealing their pensions.
(Doing a Theron: Theron is a member of the Spartan Senate in the movie 300. Theron is a manipulative man who is being bribed by the Persians to convince Sparta to surrender ...)
Who is this "Lord Hannay" that believes HE is entitled to have a vote but the British People are not? Who gave him the power to deny us our Rights? It seems to me that Lord Hannay is the exactly the sort of person who shows why we should have a House of Lords made up entirely of Herititaries - they put the Kingdom before anything else. As for all the Politicos - there are plenty of lamp-posts in London needing an adornment!
I was waching the Lords debate the EU Bill. Lord Stoddart of Swindon said this, " The British people have been let down by this and previous Governments and it is time for the people to have a referendum on the EU" and " it is not Government money the Government spends, it is the peoples money and they should have a say on how it is spent" and said "80% of the people are against the EU and it it high time they had the vote". One Lord not affraid to say what the public are saying. But he is the only one!
I would like to see Lord Alan Sugar stand up and say "ang on tosh this is my bloody money being wasted, you're fired"
When The Palace of Westminster is converted into the London Museum of Lying (covering both the telling of untruths and reposing, as if in bed) perhaps 'second chamber' can just be filled with concrete to the roof with the "Lords Spiritual and Temporal" firmly embedded within it.
For gods sake,just let us have a vote and get the hell out of europe!
Elected (the Commons) or not (the Lords) none of them care about democracy. If they did, they would have asked us first before signing away our sovereignty. Sadly, as a previous poster noted, Joe public doesn't understand or, even worse, do not care what is going on.
It was enough to read the Daily Telegraph article about how much the Lords are costing us. They get a fixed amount of £300 just for turning up, plus travel expenses. This is outrageous. Like MPs, they are a bunch of crooks. The number of Peers should be radically reduced and their fixed payments drastically reduced and a Daily Telegraph-type investigation to reveal the amount of questionable claims.
As to the Lords vote on the Bill proposing referendums, I am absolutely flabbergasted. I have now lost all confideance in the Upper Chamber!
Gerry Barlow
Unfortunately the people running this country , in both houses, are only interested in their own ends thinking only of what they can make for themselves ! Labour introduced postal voting because the number of people voting was dropping at each election . Did it not occur to them that people were no longer voting because the electorate had lost all confidence in politicians full stop . Self interest is all politicians care about , and the will of the people is just treated in total contempt. I can see no hope of this changing .
In the interst of honesty and fairness, any person who has an interest in the EU should not have any say on any government policy on the EU
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